Ep #200 Your Questions Answered with Sari and April

It's a huge milestone today as Food Business Success hits 200 episodes of a weekly podcast! Tune in for my answers to questions from our Fuel members about launching a business including my story of starting a food business. 

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Pick up your copy of "Key Ingredients" on Amazon here.

Check out my YouTube channel at www.foodbiz.tube for how to videos to start and grow a packaged food business.

Transcript

Sari  
All right, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Episode 200! Drop the balls, the balloons, all the things. It's really fun to have this milestone of 200 episodes, which is really incredible to have that body of work, and I am joined by a special guest, April King, who's our Fuel Community Manager, and she's also co founder of Better Than Provisions, and we're turning the tables today on the podcast. April is going to be the host and ask me questions, and we reached out to our Fuel members and asked them to submit their questions. So I'm going to let April take it away from here. 

So welcome April! Welcome to your Food Business Success. This podcast is for early stage entrepreneurs in the packaged food industry ready to finally turn that delicious idea into reality. I'm your host, Sari Kimbell, I have guided hundreds of food brand founders to success as an industry expert and business coach, and it's got to be fun. In this podcast, I share with you mindset tools to become a true entrepreneur and run your business like a boss, interviews with industry experts to help you understand the business you are actually in and food founder journey so you can learn what worked and didn't work and not feel so alone in your own journey. Now let's jump in!

April  
Well, thank you, Sari. I'm very excited to be here. It's really a secret dream of mine to have my own podcast one day. And so this gives me a little practice to ask some questions and see how good I am in interviewing you. You've gotten a lot of experience over your 200 episodes. Congratulations! That's a huge accomplishment. I mean, it's not a small job to have a podcast. So there's a lot that goes into it that not everyone sees or hears behind the scenes. So well done. Congratulations. And as Sari mentioned, I'm April King. I am the Fuel community manager, that is our membership group coaching program, and how I got here is by being a client of Sari'a. And four years ago, we started working together on my business Better Than Provisions, which I co founded and still own and operate to this day, but we made lots of progress in our own business by getting the support of someone who is an expert. And I can say how grateful I am for that experience and how far we've come because of it. So it's really great to be part of the community, giving guidance where I can to other food founders who are just getting started. And so it's really great to be here. 

So, yeah, we've come a long way together, really. You started your practice in what, 2018?

Sari  
Officially, I started coaching in the CPG space, I guess in 2017 when I had my couple of clients. 

April  
Right, wow. And then we launched our business in 2018 and then I so we started working with you as a consultant in 2019 through the pandemic, and since, and then this past year, I came on board into the Fuel community. So yes, we've grown a lot.

Sari  
Honor to work with you, and you're an incredible coach and I should also mention that we are recording this on YouTube, so if you guys want to watch the video, you can do that or just listen to us. 

April  
Okay, all right, and you can always jump in. I'm always open for feedback. But alright, so I wanted to start by getting to know you a little bit having our listeners get to know you a little bit better. And for those who are new to the concept, maybe this is the first episode they're listening to. They've not met you before or us, and I like, what is a food business consultant? And then I would piggyback that with what is your favorite part about being a consultant?

Sari  
I don't really know what a food business consultant is. I'm figuring it out. I made it up to some extent. But you know, in general, a consultant is somebody that has a lot of expertise in a certain area, and they're going to help get you from point A to point B faster, using all of their expertise, their connections, their learnings, their failures, and really try to bridge that gap for you to help you cross. We won't mix too many metaphors here, but cross that river, right? Build the bridges. And ultimately, I consider myself more of a coach-sultant for that term, on occasion where, you know, I used to when I first started, I literally helped people from the very beginning and do everything. So imagine, you know, in 2018 you guys just came to me and said, Sari, build our business for us. And I did everything. It was cool. I learned a lot. I created some really cool businesses, but what I learned is that I would give it back to the client, and it would kind of fall apart because they didn't know how to run the business, and they hadn't gone through all of the pain points and the learning and the failures and the oh, I went on this end, and then I went here, and then that was a dead end, but that led me here, right? It's like that constant maze that you you are on as an entrepreneur, where you go down dead ends, but that leads you to the next thing to the next thing to the next thing. I just realized this isn't serving people in the way I want it to. They're not really in a great position to run with their business and be really successful, and I was ultimately putting them in a place to need me forever. I don't actually want to be needed forever, right? It felt cool in the minute, in a moment like, I'm really needed, right? And that's definitely part of my personality. I like to be needed. It feels good. But I also don't want to be the linchpin and the ultimately, the what can get in the way of your success. So I changed my model to be a more of a coach, and put the client in the center of their business. And I am that person that is giving them advice, is giving them expertise, connecting them with the right people, but they're the ones who are doing all the work, figuring it out. And so we do that inside Food Business Success in in a more group oriented way. Or I have one on one clients that I do that model with, I like to say I'm a business coach, business consultant. Well, really, I'm a life coach masquerading as a business consultant.

April  
It's true. I think that's a good point. I think you've made a couple of really good points. It's kind of like the metaphor of teaching people to fish rather than handing them the fish. But also, like to stick with that you're helping them get the bait on the hook and, you know, showing them the technical, you know, things that maybe it would take them longer to figure out, so they can they can find their own way. And that's how you worked with us too, right? Because we had already had an established business when we came to you, we just wanted to pivot and make something different out of it. So we did a lot of work with that, and we surely did a lot of work around mindset and the other aspects of having a business and being an entrepreneur that you don't always know what you don't know and you don't know what you don't know about yourself, too, as you get into something and you find that you experience the challenges. So, do you have a moment in your business that has left you feeling the most fulfilled, is there something that sticks out into your mind, you know, not necessarily a milestone? Scott of Elevated Gains had asked that question in our Fuel community. And I thought that that was a really great question.

Sari  
There's so many. And I think that's one of the things that I really try to teach people as they grow their businesses, is like, sometimes we have these milestones, these markers of success that are so far out there, right? Like, sometimes people ask me, like, what's your biggest success story? And you know, are they in every grocery store in the US, or have they exited, or some of these really big things, and I have had some great successes. I do, I've have worked with some big brands, not to that level, like nobody's exited hundreds of millions of dollars. But that's honestly not my niche. That's not what I'm here for. I think you know why I love it, why I love the work that I do and what is so fulfilling is those small wins. It's the, I now have a product, right? I was making something in my home kitchen, and then we go through all the things, and it's finally packaged, and they make their very first sale. That is just the coolest day. And I always try, if at all possible, I try to be their very first sale, because that's really fun for me. And like, have them ship me the product, or, you know, if it's local, go buy it at the farmer's market. I'm like, let me be your first sale, because I wanted that to be like, you know that memory of that, but then it's yeah, like, when they get on their first shelf at the retailer, or when they get on Amazon. And we do so much in Fuel about celebrating our wins and all my programs, because if we're only looking at that farthest thing out, that's like, and we're going to be successful. We're not going to stay in it for that long, like, I'm not going to wait 5 years, 10 years, whatever it is to finally celebrate that. It's about celebrating those things along the way and so I find that the work that I've had to do, because at the beginning, it was about like, I'm not successful until I get that big brand to get to some big point. It's about who you're becoming as an entrepreneur and the growth that happens as each of you, all of you go, through your experience of being an entrepreneur, and it's just the coolest thing. And sometimes the most fulfilling things are nothing to do with your businesses at all, end up becoming friends with so many of you, right? Like I came out for your your birthday last year, and that was cool and so fun to be there with you, right? And that had nothing to do with our businesses.

April  
Sometimes, you know, especially like where we found the big pie in the sky might be that giant exiting or landing, that giant retail customer, and that could be one person's dream and goal, and I remember it being ours at one time, and then we reevaluated that and decided that it wasn't and that we wanted to run and operate in our business in a completely different way, which is one of the things I love about working with you, is that you take people from where they're at to where they want to go, and in the middle of that, if they decide they want to pivot, you help them do that. And it's not about oh, well, you had one goal in mind, and you can't change your mind. So I think that's the beauty also, of sort of your life coaching experience as well. Not just about it being all about the business, but it's actually about what the person wants out of the business. 

Sari  
Thank you for that. I actually want to say something about that real quick before we move on, that is really true reading. When I think about, there are other consultants out there who are amazing and there's some that work one on one, there's some that have other groups, I think what I find is that a lot of consultants, like, just have one frame. They're like, we get you to exit, or we get you to this point, and it's very specific, and it's like, everybody must follow this path, and they know their stuff. I'm not saying like, go for it, right? But what I find is that sometimes we get on a path at the very beginning, we think I want to be in all these stores, or I want to do X, Y, Z. Once you're in it, like we all should be reevaluating pretty regularly, like, is this still the path I want to be on? How many people get to the "end", whatever that is, and then they're unhappy. They're just satisfied. They're like, wait, that wasn't it. And so if I have any niche at all, I mean, I do, but I would say what I actually want to be known most for is helping people create the business that works for them and their lives, and having more fun doing it. 

April  
Yes, that's amazing, and we appreciate you so much for that. Let's see what we have in terms of questions. I think this is a really good one that Genevieve from the Wooly Spoke asked, said if you were to create a CPG product, what would it be, and why? Though, you know, on if you were to make your own product, do you or would you, like, you know? I mean, right? Because like, would you go down that path? Or is, is the path that you're on, you know, really the one that is for you, you know? I mean, I think it's a fun thing to ponder, right? 

Sari  
I know, a lot of times people ask me, like, well, do you have your own business, a product business? I'm like, no, absolutely not. I did try. I did have a little start and fail. And the very before I ever really started consulting. Well, I guess I was working for the Commissary Kitchen. So after I blew up my life in 2015 where I got laid off from Whole Foods, I got a divorce. I changed. I mean, everything. Right? All the things changed. And I was working a bunch of random contract jobs, because I wasn't ready to go back into corporate world or, you know, do a real job. So I was working at this Commissary Kitchen. I was managing it for a friend, and that's really where all of this started. So I was meeting people just like our listeners, who were like, I make the most amazing salsa, or I make the most amazing cookies or granola, whatever it was, and they would want to rent the kitchen, and I would start asking them all these questions about their business, based on all my experience with Whole Foods Market, with working in sales and selling into grocery stores and retail and restaurants, and they just would look at me like, why are you asking me these questions? I just want to make my salsa. Like, just let me use the kitchen. I'll figure it out. And that's really where all this started, was like, oh my gosh, I have done all these things, like the puzzle fits together, where I've done them all these things and so it's like, I want to help these people, because they don't know what they don't know, right? I mean, you have to go into business with a certain amount of idealism and and optimism, of course, but you know, if you knew all the things that would never start but so anyway, that, like, that's where it all started from. And so in the middle of managing, you know, I was managing the Commissary Kitchen, I was like starting to do some coaching consulting through the Small Business Development Center, kind of seeing resources and things, ways that I could help people. And then I started this company with a friend to make black garlic. And she owned a garlic company. Debbie is her name, and she was like this giant online, like the largest online retailer of garlic, called the Garlic Store, she since sold the business, but the number one search result that didn't have a product on her website was black garlic. In black garlic, you take whole garlic and you do, like a fermentation sort of process that breaks down the sugars in the garlic, and it turns it black and, like, spreadable and almost sweet.

April  
Like, yeah, that's a really unique flavor.

Sari  
And it's become over the years. I mean, this was, gosh, now, like, that was 2017 I think 2016. So, yeah, probably 2016, so we're like, we're going to get on this. And so we had a great idea. We had the garlic, right? She got garlic wholesale. We had an outlet. She had her whole store people, thousands of thousands of people on her email list who wanted black garlic. But then we had to go figure out the licensing and the equipment and how do we scale it up? And we had bought all these like things on Amazon, but they're more for home use, to like, play with it. And then we bought this bread proofer, we thought, if we could just we need, like, a certain amount of moisture and a certain amount of heat, and if we could, maybe we can rig this like proofer to do it. We got her boyfriend involved, who's like, so I bet, like, I've been there where, you guys.

April  
Yeah, exciting. I don't even know.

Sari  
So good, yeah. And it's hilarious, there's photos of us, like, we in the kitchen, just like, so frustrated trying to figure out how to make this work. And, you know, we couldn't make it work on us with these little guys from Amazon. It wasn't, it wouldn't have been legal commercially, and we did the numbers, and it was like, this, doesn't you know the time and the number of bulbs you can do and all of that. So ultimately, I learned such a good lesson from that, is that your why has to be really strong. Did I give a flying F about black garlic? I was not passionate about black garlic at all. I mean, I saw the opportunity in it, but I did not want to keep sinking money into something, money and time, that I wasn't really passionate about. So ultimately, we hit some technical dead ends that I just wasn't willing to continue making investments in because it was like the next step would have been like a $10,000 machine from China.

April  
What a great experience for you to have to bring to what you do now, right? Like you understood that there were going to be certain steps to take. You've tried to take them on your own, you know? And you had to get resourceful. And now you are like a resource for people to figure that stuff out, which is really cool, yeah. And yeah, the growing pains can be really challenging. And so I think it's really important what you mentioned about having a really strong why. Like, why are you doing this? What is it that this gives you? How does this feed you, literally and figuratively, right? And is that enough to get you through the hard times? You know, being an entrepreneur is not the easiest path to take but it can be so rewarding and, and that's why we always talk about celebrating the small wins along the way.

Sari  
And I feel like I should actually answer Jenny's question. That was like a long answer to question, but if I had to do it, if I was like, somebody was like, we're giving you $100,000 what would you do with it and your only option is to create a CPG business. Oh, that's in food. I think what I would do is really do a mixture now that I you know, six years, seven years, whatever this has been. Of all this work is trying to find where's the data pointing at of, like, some trends, or where people are, like, really still buying in? Whether that's like, right now things are very protein forward, or, like, you're in keto space. So definitely, like having something niche, that you can really identify your fans, and that there's data to support, that they're buying it, but they have money to buy it. I wouldn't want something that's I have to really educate people on too much, like seek help for something like that, right? Like, I don't want something too far out there. I want something that's consumable. So as some of our sauce makers and seasoning blend people know, like, you just don't go through seasoning all that quickly, right? I want something that people are going to consume weekly ideally, maybe daily, and there would still have to be some passion in there for me, you know, just like the black garlic thing, like I wouldn't want it just just be all numbers and stuff. But what I have learned is it's about taking your passion and then becoming passionate about running the business. And that's the flip that needs to happen, and that's why I love working with the people we do, because they're so passionate. They love their products, or the things that, like their grandma made, or, you know, that they finally got their kids to eat their vegetables, or, like you, you solved a health problem for yourself and for your clients at the time and so we want that passion. But ultimately, the work that we're doing inside Food Business Success is really about helping people become passionate about running their businesses. So I would want to have, you know, be behind the product completely and, like, really love it. And, you know, not be like, I'm selling my soul for this great product that has good numbers, but it's like, it's all got to be there, the numbers, some shelf stability. Can it go to a co manufacturer? I don't want to ever make a product myself and I'd be doing a lot more data, combining it with practicality of it and I mean, I'm not saying to change your your idea, but if I had to do it, you know, we work with people who have frozen products and refrigerator all that stuff. But, yeah, if I had to do it, that's how I would do it. Is like, be really strategic, use data, get really passionate about running the business and make sure it's like easy to make, easy to store. Don't have a shelf life.

April  
That's a great answer. There's a lot of nuggets in there for the new food business entrepreneur. So we have a new person in our community, LaDonna from Trucking Fuel, and she's so very excited about her business. So on that track, I'd love to pose her question to you, and she asks, you know, as a potential new vendor, what suggestions? Because a lot of times we really help people in the very beginning stages of their business. And when they're in the beginning, a lot of times, they're doing food under cottage law, which allows them to make it at home, and then they can take it to places like farmers markets and sell it at a farmers market. And people might not know that you also own a farmers market, so you have the experience of taking on new vendors with new businesses. And she wants to know what success suggestions you have for vetting a farmer's market. You know, she's saying that the local town be the best case scenario. But if you don't have an a local option, what distance would you expand? So I guess the first part of the question is, how do you vet a farmer's market? And then how do you know if it's worth it for you to go outside of your local community? If that is not available to you. 

Sari  
Yeah, shout out to LaDonna. We're excited to have her. All these people you read off. I'm like, oh, they're my favorite. So, yeah. I love, first of all, I love that we have cottage food options. Every state has some form of cottage food law that allows you to start certain products in your home kitchen, which I think is such a wonderful way for people to, you know, at a low cost, low risk, to just feel it out right, test out the waters. Not every product is going to fall into cottage food, but if yours does, big fan of it, and that's exactly one of the reasons I built Food Business Success is for those early stage folks. And if you've been listening to me for any amount of time, you know I love farmers markets as a great way to get out and start testing your product, get feedback and be making sales at the same time, right? And to kind of start growing with your business and putting money back into it, and iterating it in real time with instant feedback. So I do highly recommend and cottage food does come with a lot of restrictions on where you can sell, and most states don't allow you to sell into grocery stores. Some do like where you're at in Arizona, April, but most don't. So usually Farmers Markets are kind of the main way that cottage food people get started. And yeah, I do own a Winter Farmers Market that's very, very successful, very popular and we have a lot of people who actually do travel quite a distance to come to our market. So I guess to answer the first part of LaDonna's question is, I do think it's important, if you have multiple options, yeah, go and vet that farmers market. Like go to the market itself. What days of the week is it? Kind of go at different times, see what the traffic's like. You can go and introduce yourself to the market staff and have a chat, follow them on social media. Like, are they trying to be really good partners and promote, you know, promote their their vendors, some markets, you're just going to know, if they're in your community, you're like, oh, that's the, you know, that's the really successful one. That's a really popular one. And then you might have some that are more like, C, you know, B minus list versus a plus. So of course, you might want to be like, I definitely want to get into the A plus. But the reality is, those markets are typically full, and you have to get on wait lists and things and depending where you're at. I mean, we have people in Fuel who are in California, and, you know, they're like, there's no way I'm getting into Santa Monica or Santa Cruz or wherever, to those markets right away. So sometimes you just have to be a little, you know, you need to do the more B minus market. So you need to start doing pop ups, like, start really showing that you can be successful and keep trying, keep going. And Danny and I talk a lot about this in our Up Level workshop for farmers markets, about vetting and what if you don't get in to the market on the first try, and how do you how do you get in? And I worked with Scott with Elevated Gains on his Farmers Market application, and you know, he hadn't gotten in for three years, and then we rewrote it, and he had switched his product a little bit, but he got in, you know, and that was so such a cool win for him, and helping him out with that. But I mean, ultimately, you know, you have to think about like fees and, you know, the partnership and the dates and what are their policies? Hopefully you can find most that online. You know, we have a market here in Denver. We have lots of farmers markets here, which is great. Definitely some are more like, you know, A plus and some are more like B minus, C plus markets. And sometimes you just got to start, where you got to start, wherever you can get in. Give it a go. But we do have one market here that is ridiculously expensive, and it's the Cherry Creek market. It's like, I think it's like $300 for a table for a booth for each market. And so you also have to do your math and be like, am I going to be able to make money doing this right? And who the customers are and you know, in that Up Level workshop, we talked about the break even point and so maybe before you just go, like, head first into the 300 you know, that Cherry Creek, like market that you're like, well, maybe that's not for me quite yet. And maybe that doesn't make sense. Now I have, like, a I worked with a couple beef people when you're selling high end Wagyu beef at Cherry Creek, that might make sense for you. You're selling, you know, one order is people are buying $300 worth of beef, and you're like, these are my people, but if you have to sell a $6 bag of something, right? Like, how many of those do you have to sell and is that realistic? You know, just being smart about it. There's lots of things to consider. And then, you know, like I said, our market in Fort Collins, is the only Winter farmers market, like, true Winter farmers market where we have a lot of food there. We run November through April. And so people come from probably some of the far well, we have some people come like, three, four hours away, but I would say, you know, kind of average is probably like 60 miles away. So if you find a good market, I think it is really worth it. And maybe you don't have to go to every market. Maybe go once a month or twice a month, see, you know. But we have really, really flexible policies. Some markets are like, you have to be here at every single market. You don't come at all, you know. And so it's just like finding the right thing for you.

April  
I think I can add to that, because we're in the process of doing that right now to where we're cutting back on a couple of our, we've negotiated one of our Tucson markets, which is where we live, to do twice a month, so that we can go up north to Phoenix or twice a month. And it's one of those things where we're testing the market, we're going to go twice a month, the market that we're getting into isn't actually the market we want from that market group. But because people leave in the summer, we're using that as an opportunity to get our foot in the door. So to show them that we are good vendors that we are, you know, because we know that this other market is a good fit for us one of the groups, but it's the one that is always full, and everybody wants. And so we're going to demonstrate how we could add something to the market. And also to see how they function, you know, after market so that we know, like is is the group that we want to be connected with, because it's a two hour drive. And, you know, meanwhile, we're adding people to our email list. And worst case scenario, the market's not a fit, but we've gained new customers that we can get, we can sort of funnel to our ecommerce store. So I think there are a lot of different variables that you can measure things you can measure, to know whether or not it's worth it for you, really what you want at the end of the day.

Sari  
That's why you're coach in the community because yeah, different perspectives. 

April  
We've tried all kinds of things, you know. We've done market that was a five hour drive. And we did that last summer and we went, I think we went six weeks in a row and then realized like, this is a lot, it was a very, it's a seasonal market too. So it came closer to the end of the season. And we opened up a wholesale account there with a local coffee shop and then they hit their low seasons. So this year, we were invited back and we were just like, you know, five hours one way. And then on the way back at the drive on a Sunday afternoon, when everybody that's up there for the summer to beat the heat is heading back to the valley. And so it's more like a seven or eight hour drive home. And so if you think about the time and the gas, and the the fact that usually we would have to you know, we would try to stay overnight, so we could get up early in the morning and be fresh for the market. You know, so and even though it was a really great market, we still had to say no, you know, we liked the market. We liked the people we like we were making money, but just not enough to justify all those other things.

Sari  
Like what we talked about in that Up Level workshop is Danny did a whole call on hiring. So maybe that's like when you were like growing and you have multiple markets, and you may want to consider hiring so that you can still do those cool markets.

April  
Which is what I think we'll probably end up doing for that Phoenix markets, because because if they turn out to be good for the summer, that means they're going to be better in our high season, which is fall and winter. In Arizona, right? So then there might be an opportunity to hire somebody up there so that we're not making the drive. And have extra bodies so that we could try the market we really want if they'll accept us. Yeah, there's lots of ways to figure it out, for sure. And, you know, they would piggyback LaDonna's question with arenas of the fizzy being, you know, she's asking how do you know if your product has found a market fit? Like you talked about being passionate about having what you make about it being consumable something that people are using on the regulars? And so how do you know if your product is something that people want or is in the right place? 

Sari  
And what I love about what Irene is doing, and she's actually doing the thing that I would suggest, which is she's starting at a farmers market, and she's testing it out, she's getting immediate feedback from consumers. And sometimes that feedback is no, thank you. It's like, you have to be willing to like like not everybody's going to love your product and that's okay. You know, that's not the goal is for everybody love it, but the people who do love it, what do they love about it? Aare they okay paying the price point that she's going to offer and she's got those great cold coffee beverage so it's, you know, it's like finding with any products a lot of times, people are like, we're stretching beyond what people know. So it's like trying to find some things like, you're explaining it in a way that people understand like, it's a cold espresso sparkling beverage with a little kick to it, or it's like this, but with a little bit of this, right? So it's such a great way to just test out your messaging, test out your pricing, and test out your flavors. And then you can take it, you know, when you want to go to that next level, like for her, it might be bottling this product. For other people, it might be like, it's already packaged, but I want to put it on a store shelf. Then you can take that data that you get from a market and say, you know, every week, I sold this many more, and I like I'm tweaking my messaging, and tweaking my sizing and my pricing and getting more efficient, and, you know, price wise, and all those things. And then you can, you can take that data to the next level. And you really do want to try to test these things out incrementally. And that's why I do love the farmers market model. I know not everybody has the time or desire to invest in that. And I totally get it, there are other ways to test it. But they are going to be more techy, you know, more like social media and more virtual and things like that, you can certainly do focus groups. I was on a call with somebody who wants to launch a product, like a cereal product that's a little bit different. Like there's definitely some different things about it, which is cool. But you got to get feedback on that, you got to see where are the pain points for people like, you know, is it the price? Is it the flavor? Is it the size? Is it something about the, maybe the texture of the product, or the convenience of it, or the nutrition or the expectations, and so it's just a it's a matter of testing it. And it's tough, you got to be willing to hear not so great feedback. And you want that because that's what makes you better. But it is important to test for product market fit. The last thing I want you to do is go out and get 50,000 of anything you like or 5000 or even 1000. Like, you know, we got all these bags printed, and we're doing this flavor and this size. And you have done no testing at all. And then you're going to invest so much money and time and then be like why aren't it selling? And you didn't get any of the feedback ahead of time.

April  
I think we value our farmers markets for that reason. And we still do. We've even surveyed our customers to see where they might want to see us next right to see what kind of feedback we're getting in terms of like, would they buy us on a store? Would they vote, you know, and that's sort of how we landed on Amazon. In fact, I think we did a survey where people would like to see us next, and that got the most response. And so that's kind of what prompted our work with you. We kind of went that direction. So then we got the brand updated. And yes, and I would not, I would have been really sad how I bought 6000 bags at a time. Yeah, like I had 6000 pouches that I had to eat felt like I had to use up in our old brand or old brand was like, I love it for what it was. But now I'm very happy that we have the brand than we had. If I had like 6000 of those, or even 5000 sitting alongside of me going, you know, it would be really tough to feel like, you know, I can move forward. So let's see here. Yeah, there's some questions. We have still a few questions. So maybe we can move through those.

Sari  
We are making this into two part series. 

April  
Yeah. We could do this. Yes, I know, two parts. Part one, part two. So let's kind of stick with maybe some of the questions that fit into what we're talking about now. And we were talking about farmers markets, and figuring out what's going to work in your market. And you talked about testing prices. And Meg of Frost Butters has a question because her butter is going to have a higher price point than she makes a compound butter and she's going to have a higher price point than traditional butters. And her question is, how does she justify that to her buyers?

Sari  
It fits perfectly into this when you're just starting a business and really for probably most of you guys listening the lifecycle of your business, you are never going to be able to compete on price ever. You're not going to be competing at Walmart or anything like that with whatever you make. So then we have to approach it very differently and really where I think we need to do it. And this is where a lot of my marketing background comes in. I mean, I don't have formal training with marketing, I got my degree in history with secondary education, which has served me well, but not in marketing. But I think I just have that brain of a marketer, and I did that for Whole Foods Market for a good long time. But we sold expensive products at Whole Foods market. And I think it comes down to selling, you got to sell a story, there has to be a connection with your customer where you are, you're not just telling your story, they don't care about you. April, you have an amazing background as a health and nutrition coach, and all of that, but you can't start with that. And I think that's where a lot of people want to start is like, but I'm a chef or I'm a coach, or I'm this or then, nobody gives a crap until they understand the problem that you're solving for them. So in Meg's case, the "problem" is that you've been eating really bland, boring steaks and pasta and fish and other foods, right? Like your life doesn't have to be so bland and boring. And just a little bit of this amazing compound butter. And weirdly, I attract all the compound butter people. Not that many of you, but they all come in great. I love it.

April  
Because we love them.

Sari  
It's so funny to me, I'm like, I mean, I would understand if it was like coffee or hot sauce or something. But apparently all the butter people come and work with us. But that's the real problem that we're solving. And so we got to get people connected in with us, first of all, like, oh, yeah, I am tired of like bland, boring steaks, you know, I want something that's interesting. And she has butter called Cafe de Paris. That's like, his recipe that her husband got when he was a sous chef or chef in Paris from this restaurant, right? It's got this amazing story. And that's part of what you got to lead with too. And for her, I got kind of excited because I told her I said, we need you to become the Grey Poupon of butters. We want people to ask for it by name. But how you know, you got to add in some story, you got to add in, you know, what's the problem you're solving, right? I mean, I can go to Walmart and buy leggings. Or I can go to Lululemon and buy very similar leggings for 10 times the price. So it's that brand, it's that story. It's that affinity that people have the connection. And so it's really about starting there and building on that story.

April  
Absolutely, I would agree with that. 100%. And I think to going back to that question about the market fit. It's also knowing what market to put it in, right? Like, if you want people to ask for it by name, then are you building like, are you working in, you know, in food service with Exclusive Resorts or you know, like. Yes. So it's like finding those places where people are expecting and wanting and don't even think about the cost of it. And, I mean, we've had that similar experience too, I mean, yes, we have a $14 product and I mean it's for a nine ounce serve banana, a nine ounce pouch. So that's pretty expensive granola and so we can't compete, with we can't you know. One of our biggest competitors is Purely Elizabeth who started just like I did with a nutrition background with one product of it was granola and but the timing was different or product is different. She grew in the way that we're not really interested in growing because her product was a little bit more. I hate to say this because she has a really great brand and really great product but like more of a commodity where our product is more specialty and suits a certain type of consumers so we have to go where that consumer shops you know, and so now we have a lot of people that find us via the resorts because they'll say oh my gosh, this granola is so good. What is it and then they'll sit Better Than Provisions and then they'll go look us up and so it kind of works in reverse for us.

Sari  
Like going to those high end steak restaurants and at the beginning, you have to just bend over backwards like not saying you know, I mean maybe you even give them some product for free at the beginning and you do a fun steak night. and you're there as the founders and you know, like you make it a fun event, but you become good partners with them. And you just have to start with one and then you build the two and then you build three. And next thing you know, you're in, like, you know, Ruth Chris Steakhouse. And you're like one of the featured things that you can ask for on the menu. But you don't get there from here. It starts with one and you drop your entitlement, and you just, you'd become a great partner, and you just do whatever it takes, and you keep knocking on doors. And the first one might say no, and then you try it again.

April  
Yeah, and I think it's important to say too that, you know, it's okay to ask for what it's worth, not necessarily sell it for what you think people will pay for it. That was probably one of the biggest pieces of advice I got, when we started because it didn't have a coach, it didn't have a consultant in the beginning, helping me to figure out how to price it, I really was just pulling a number out of my hat, right? And I mean, I knew my cogs at the time, I knew how much it costs us to make it. But I didn't know anything about like, what my margins should be, or any of that. And so I have a friend that has a product business, and she's been in business a long time. And she's very successful. And that was her number one piece of advice was April charge what it's worth, not what you think people are going to pay for it. And you can always reduce your price. But it's a lot more complicated if you start low, and then you go up. So I think that, you know, just getting that validation of, okay, it's okay to charge what I think it's worth. So I was like, girls like, well, we think we can get $10 for it. And then like, we're not we're going to charge 15. And so that was my first price point was $15. So and we got out there at the farmers market and tested it.

Sari  
At farmers markets, you can. You can definitely be more, you know, people are willing to open their wallet, they're there to shop, it's an experience, they know, they're going to pay more. So it's a great place to start. And, you know, it gets it gets tricky with the charge what it's worth, because I agree, I don't want people coming out of the gate losing money or their margins, not right. And that's why you know, that pricing for profit tool inside the business successes, people are like, this is worth the entire price of the program, just that one spreadsheet. But but then remember, you're also building a path towards profitability. And so you might not, you can survive at a farmers market at the beginning. But you know, we had to do a lot of tweaking for you guys to be profitable at wholesale, right?

April  
Yes. We changed it up for sure. Yes, it is indeed a journey. And you know, and we've increased our margins by lowering our cogs, you know, by making now we can purchase the you know, we've grown slowly and organically, but eventually, you know, we got to a point where we could make those shifts, and then open up the margin further so that we can offer things like discounts and an opportunities for people to save money. So that was really a good answer and hopefully, that was helpful to Meg. And so yeah, we we've answered quite a few questions on the beginning stages of a food business, you've explained what a consultant does, we've talked a little bit about how someone might get their start and some of the things that they want to consider when they're starting their food business. And I think that this is probably a good time to maybe, to wrap up this segment of our conversation, so that we can come back a second time. Yeah, because I hated the idea of missing anybody's questions, right? Because our members really submitted some really great questions. So I want to obviously make sure we can get to all of them. And also that we don't lose people to and to our podcast, because not everybody is a two hour podcast listener.

April  
I know.

April  
Right, but we could keep talking about this probably for the next five hours. So that just gives us an opportunity to come back and answer maybe some later stage business questions. And give the folks that this first episode is going to be helpful for, time to listen to it. And clearly this is your 200th episode. So there are plenty of other episodes that folks can tune into, in the meantime to get some more of your knowledge and expertise. And you have other experts that you've interviewed as well. Do you have a few favorites that you might like to leave our listeners with today that they can go check out?

Sari  
Oh my gosh. So yeah, don't worry Ryan and Maggie and Dan. Jessica, we're going to come to you guys. Next week, we will get yours. And yeah, this has been so fun to have April interviewing me and have this conversation, you guys can see why I love her. And she's such a great fit inside the program. And so fun, we're going to definitely have more of these conversations, but I'm stalling. 

April  
Those are excellent choices. And I second your thoughts on Sarah Delavan. I think she's great and definitely worth the listen. And I'm not sure what episode ours was when I would you know, early days, when we're first really starting to work together. Or maybe it was when we finally launched on Amazon, I can't remember. But it leads me to saying that that third episode that you mentioned, The Power of Having a Coach is really powerful. You're obviously you know, you're not my first coach, your my first business coach, but not my first coach in life. Because I really believe that having someone that you can bounce ideas off of someone that can help you recenter yourself when you feel off and someone that can help you find the resources that you may not be able to resource in the moment whether it's because you just don't have access to them or because you are so maybe overwhelmed that you just don't know where to look. I think that that is is really helpful in business and in life. So thank you for those recommendations. Yes, and thank you for letting me to be the guest host today. This was really fun. And I look forward to doing it again.

Sari  
Well, thank you April for guest hosting. And we will get a time book to do number two, follow up and get everybody the rest of the questions answered. Thank you to all the Fuel members who submitted questions. At first I was like, come on you guys. We need more and then we're like, oh my gosh.

April  
Yes. And Happy anniversary. Happy 200th anniversary. Congratulations for all your hard work.

Sari  
Until next time, have an amazing week. The smartest thing you can do as an entrepreneur is to invest in a who to help you with the how to speed up your journey and help you skip the line. When you are ready for more support and accountability to finally get this thing done, you can work with me in two ways. Get me all to yourself with one on one business coaching or join Food Business Success which includes membership inside Fuel, our community of food business founders that includes monthly live group coaching calls and so much more. It's one of my favorite places to hang out and I would love to see you there. Go to foodbizsuccess.com to start your journey towards your own Food Business Success.