Ep #231 Shipping & Logistics with Caitlin Wilson of Full Good Fulfillment

This industry has A LOT of acronyms from 3PL to BOL to LTL and other terms like "kitting". In this episode, you are going to learn all of these things and more so you feel more confident in the area of logistics and fulfillment. 

My guest is Caitlin Wilson, founder of Full Good Fulfillment, who is on a mission to help brands simplify the journey from finished product to scalable delivery operations. 

We’re diving into what happens after manufacturing—how to navigate freight options, decide when it’s time to partner with a fulfillment center, and take those first steps to stop doing it all yourself. 

It's time to educate yourself so you feel confident about what a 1PL is up to a 5PL and understand what is right for your business at the right time.

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Transcript

Sari  0:00  
Welcome to your Food Business Success. This podcast is for early stage entrepreneurs in the packaged food industry ready to finally turn that delicious idea into reality. I'm your host Sari Kimbell, I have guided hundreds of food brand founders to success as an industry expert and business coach, and it's got to be fun. In this podcast, I share with you mindset tools to become a true entrepreneur and run your business like a boss, interviews with industry experts to help you understand the business you are actually in, and food founder journey so you can learn what worked and didn't work, and not feel so alone in your own journey. Now, let's jump in!

Sari  0:47  
Welcome back to the podcast everyone, really excited to have you here, and today's guest is amazing. I'm really excited to welcome Caitlin Wilson of Full Good Fulfillment. So welcome, Caitlin. 

Caitlin  1:00  
Thank you. 

Sari  1:02  
And we were on a call. You're part, we're part of a women's networking group in CPG. And we met actually a while ago and had lunch. And I was like, oh my gosh, she's amazing. Everybody needs to know her.

Caitlin  1:17  
Thanks, Sari. 

Sari  1:18  
And you're just an all around badass in CPG, and then you were talking about 5 PL. And I was like, okay, we got to have her on the podcast. We haven't ever really talked about logistics and all of that stuff, so we're going to get into that. But first, you have an incredible background in CPG, and so I'd love for you to just share a little bit about your background and who you are. 

Caitlin  1:43  
Yeah. So I actually come from the farming world, but the fresh produce space. I'm fifth generation of a big farming family on the West Coast, and I worked in that in the produce world, and kind of the transportation support space for some huge retailers that we worked with for a long time, and it was really fun working in the family business. And then I kind of saw a transition and to, like, just took the opportunity to kind of step away from the family business, still, obviously very heavily involved. You know, from like, an emotional standpoint, it's still a really cool thing to be a part of. And my husband got a cool opportunity to come out to Denver, and of course, it was right around COVID. And so we came out to Denver, and you know, my husband and I met in college. I went to Colorado State, initially went to Boulder for two years, couldn't hang so I transferred to Colorado State, and was a little bit well, you know, it was a better fit for me being an ag kid up there. And so I met my husband at school. And anyway, really fun, you know, kind of story there. But yeah, he got an opportunity to come back to Denver. And so we walked through the door, we came back to Denver. And at that point in time, we had just had our daughter, our youngest, and I just, you know, didn't really know what was in the cards for me, but was just enjoying being a mom and taking some time to kind of reset. And during that period of time, a colleague was starting a dog food company, a fresh, frozen dog food company, and was like, God, I really need help just bringing this product to market. And it was a fun, like, kind of work from home, part time kind of thing and so, but, you know, with farmer's dog and with all these other kind of, like, big fresh frozen companies out there, it was definitely like an uphill battle. But through that, you know, I really realized how horrible and not horrible, but really like poor, I'd say poor communication and kind of just not great support wise, the logistics spaces for CPG brands and so kind of just started by supporting our own brand, right? And kind of, after exploring a bunch of fulfillment companies and logistics groups, just really realized, like, wow, there's an opportunity here to kind of flip the script. And so what started with just our own brand, we quickly, it was word of mouth and through our co manufacturer at the time that we took on, like our initial few kind of brands as clients. And now, you know, we're kind of, we're like, in, you know, we went from like, beta testing the business, if you will, and then now we're in like, a massive warehouse. And so it's just kind of, and we service a lot. We're over like 50 brands that we're helping right now, and it's really fun. So that's the kind of the whole story of what, you know, what we're Full Good came from. Full Good is named after my kids, Ford and Georgia. So I always like sharing that. It's, oh, yeah. But as far as, like, all the PLs are concerned, it's definitely like, you know, always a topic of conversation. So I'm happy to kind of dive in and share a little bit more about it so.

Sari  5:02  
First of all, I have to say, go rams. And fun fact, I actually like, it's so funny how we never met, but your husband at a real estate development, like, ages ago. I know, and then we had a mutual friend and, like, was talking about the dog food company and this amazing woman that was helping with it. It's like, oh, wow.

Caitlin  5:30  
So fun, I know, I know. I love that. Like, how that works, especially in the CPG space, like, it's such a small world and so many amazing people, and just the networks, you know, the places that I've met, people and whatnot, everyone's so positive and yeah, but anyway, it's been fun being a part of your journey as well, Sari. 

Sari  5:52  
Yeah, well, I've definitely referred some clients your way. So it's so cool to see you grow along with the clients as well. Sofor people who are like,  what are the PLS? So typically we hear of what's called a 3 PL, so can you kind of tell us what that is? 

Caitlin  6:14  
Yeah, I'll actually start at, like, there's a 1 PL, if you want, and kind of work all the way up. Yeah, so when you're referring to, PLs, you're just referring to logistics. It's for, you know, third party logistics is a 3 PL, right? So there's actually something called a 1 PL. And 1 PL is like, when you, quite literally, are doing it all yourself. So you're manufacturing, your shipping, you're doing everything in house by yourself. And a lot of the brands, I'm sure that you know, a lot of the brands that you work with, and a lot of the brands that we kind of step in to help, they start out as a 1 PL, right? So a lot of listeners are probably currently 1 PLs. And then a 2 PL is kind of when you still keep some things, but you know, you're maybe just searching out for transportation help or something like that. So that's like the 2 PL, and that's really kind of, like, not very common, whereas a 3 PL is, like the most common term that you hear, and that is when it's like, warehousing, transportation help, kind of like a lot of things all in one. A lot of 3 PLs, though, people call themselves a 3 PL, but they may not be a warehouse, they may be like a freight broker, or they may be, you know, like contractor that just helps with like, one or two things. And it's quite funny, because they all call themselves like 3 PLs. A lot of fulfillment companies classify as a 3 PL, we certainly do, right? But I like to say that we're either a 4 PL or a 5 PL. Five PLS is kind of a newer term, and what that means is that it's just kind of providing further logistics help. So there are some brands that we work with that still want to have a lot of control, and they're really good at, like, knowing when to replenish their product, knowing when to order more, you know, kind of knowing when to step in operationally. And like, only let us handle the 3 PL aspect, which is just the logistics. And then we worked with some brands recently that are like, you know what? You guys know what you're doing here, you see our products, like, can you help us with kind of replenishment of inventory and really identifying when to reorder? And we even have some clients that are like, yeah, do you mind just like reaching out directly, and like helping me with my reorders and just taking a lot more off of people's plates, some additional services like might include things like replying to clients on like a hello ad email, things that are like to that nature. And so that's kind of what classifies like more like a 5 PL. So I mean all intents and purposes, like we're still a free PL, but we like to say that we're trying to inch our way towards more of a 5 PL, allowing these brands to either not have to hire an operations person or logistics specialist in house and, like, just really work with us instead, like we want to just be on the same team as the brands that we work with. So yeah. So that's kind of like a full, kind of a long winded, but full explanation, if you will.

Sari  9:20  
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Sari  10:11  
I love that. It's a really great add on, because as brands start to grow, they need those extra support. So you're helping brands be able to scale, and be more efficient with the services. I love that. As a fulfillment partner, I guess, you know, we get the question a lot is like, you know, most people do start out as 1 PLs, and they're doing all the things. Maybe they have a co packer, right? But certainly, you know, I know your business will help with, like, the logistics of, what kind of, they kind of forget that, like, okay, a co packer makes it and then in the product has to go somewhere.

Caitlin  10:57  
Exactly, we work with, like, any, I mean, really, all manufacturers, a lot of them will be like, oh, yeah, no, we can handle the logistics for you. And then that's kind of it, like, they'll just ship it to wherever it needs to go. And then some are like, no, no. Like, you got to do that yourself. And that can be very overwhelming for brands, right? And that could be, that is something that's kind of like, where do I even start? And you know, we've helped kind of guide brands through the process. Like, it's not as scary. It's kind of like, for me, I used to be very scared of numbers, right? I'm not as much anymore, because I've worked with some amazing fractional CFOs and, you know, right? But it's like, let's not be scared of logistics. Like, let's empower you as a brand founder to really understand logistics, and then we can partner with you as well. So you know. And yeah, after you manufacture your product, it has to go somewhere generally. Generally, co manufacturers are not going to do all the fulfillment and all the work as well. Some might. So it's kind of like where to go next.

Sari  11:56  
It's pretty rare. I've seen a few but, and sometimes they will store your product for you, but they'll charge you for it and so, but most of the time, like, they're a manufacturer, and then they want you to get your stuff out of there, because they need to make room for manufacturing, the next person. So, you know, we're getting into the details of this, but I think it'll be really helpful. So some people might be like, okay, well, do I just schedule ups but what we're dealing with here is, like, probably pallets, if you're at a co manufacturer, and so what kind of freight options do people have with that?

Caitlin  12:33  
Yeah, so it's so interesting, and you know, we've worked with brands that are just like I said earlier, just getting started, right? Or kind of moving, transitioning from, like, being at a farmer's market even, to like, okay, wow, I've really proven my model. I'm ready to, you know, get online now, or I'm ready to get into major retailers now, even, you know, local retailers. And how do I do that? And so I think, you know, the first step is, yeah, obviously co manufacturing. And if you're not already, you know, in with a co manufacturer, like finding a great one, right? And then it's like, yes, the next steps are literally figuring out your logistics. Like, how are you going to either go from the co manufacturer to your own facility or to a facility like ours? And, yeah, so there's it's lately I've seen some very interesting things happening in the freight world, one of which is the development of, it's like the Uber Freight of the world. And I'm actually, like, very good friends with some awesome people at Uber Freight. And I was actually like, a big part of when Uber Freight first got started, they wanted to get into the produce space and kind of letting you know the exploration of that happen at our facility in California, my family's facility in California, and that was a really fun project. So it's so funny, because when I started this business, I'm like, oh, wow. So Uber Freight still around like that. This is still a thing, yeah. And so it's like, quite literally, like an app that you can just go on and like as a brand, you know, develop, you know, kind of, okay, well, I need a palette, and I need a boot cure. Here, the only bummer with things like Uber Freight, they're getting better and better at it every single day as a business. But the only bummer is that, you know, if you have a product that is, like refrigerated or frozen, or, you know, like you have a time restriction. It's tough right now with LTL being less than a truckload is what LTL stands for. And generally, if you're a startup brand, you're only producing, let's call it four or five pallets at a time, going with options like that, right? So we have a bunch of carriers that we trust and that we partner with that ensure their pallets, right, they ensure the trucks. And if anything were to ever happen like, you know, you state how much the product costs you and right, you can go through that whole process. And so those are the types of carrier groups that we like to partner with. And then we also, you know, if it's a co manufacturer that's in the Denver area, we've got a ton of local, like, kind of hot shot guys that we partner with, and that we work, like, exclusively with, for fresh, frozen and refrigerated. 

Sari  15:19  
I think, you know, I used to work for a farm, I remember the woman that would sit at the front desk. She was a fireball, but, and she would like be on the phone with truckers and, you know, dealing with bills of lading, pick up times. And it was insane, because, I mean, we had, like, semis coming in there, but it's really important, especially if you have a refrigerated product and you have a channel custody, right?

Caitlin  15:48  
Totally. And that's where, like, you know, that gal, I mean, that was back then, you know. And nothing has really changed in the freight world. It's still very much, like, long handed. There's obviously a lot of technology now, but you still need printed out bill of ladings, you know, you still need that chain of custody has to still, yeah. And I, you know, while I think that there are, like, a lot of evolutions happening within the transportation space, I think there will always kind of be that a little bit old school part of it. And, you know, it's not going anywhere. And so it's just a matter of kind of learning. Like, what are the practices partnering with groups like ourselves? It's just like we want to help you understand it, but then, like, let us just handle it as well, type of thing. 

Sari  16:38  
Definitely an area of just be like, you somebody who knows what they're doing. Yes, I only need to know the high level. So you get the product to, so you can go to yourself, and then you're the fulfillment, the 1 PL. Or, how do I know when it's time, as a brand, if I'm been in one PL, like, when do you typically see, you know, encourage brands that you meet with to be like, now you're ready. 

Caitlin  17:05  
We were just having this conversation the other day with a new brand out of Boulder, and you know, what I love the most about this business is getting on these calls with these brands and hearing their stories first, right, and really, truly understanding where they are and the life cycle of their brand. And there's many, many times that I say to them, listen, you're just not ready for us yet. But I do try to provide like, that level of advice, like, hey, why don't you try this or try this? And I'm always happy to do that. And, you know, to talk to brands kind of through the life cycle and get them ready for us. We generally say, so we have a monthly minimum. And our monthly minimum is pretty low compared to when I was shopping out monthly minimums for my own dog food brand. And so if you can't hit your monthly minimum with us, which includes everything, like storage, shipping label, cost of the cartons, if we're going to, you know, use, we have our own boxes here, so like, you don't have to come to us with boxes tape, right? All the things like, that's all kind of included in being a client of ours. You know, if you hit a certain point and you exceed that monthly minimum already doing it yourself, or, like, you're launching a new brand, and you're like, wow, I've already got a ton of pre sales, like, to the tune of like, 2 or 300 right? It's like, yeah, you're probably going to be ready for us. So it's, you know, if you're doing 10 orders a week, like, you're not quite there, right, but I'm happy to share with you, kind of how to get there, you know, in the logistics space, and maybe how we could provide any level of guidance. We're happy to do that. We're actually coming out in Q1 with, like, an education piece. I don't know quite we're working on the framework still, but pretty exciting. There's just so many brands, right, that, like, are kind of scared. And I don't want it to be a scary thing, you know. I don't want logistics and fulfillment to be like, I don't know how to do this. I want to empower brands and while, you know, I want them to work with us, I do want to provide, like, some level of education and training, because it's just not out there, like it is digging, you know, through a haystack to find something. And it shouldn't be like that. 

Sari  19:16  
It is this very like, cloaked world. You can't find stuff readily online. And there's a lot of, like, insider.

Caitlin  19:26  
Yeah, it's like, a lot of insider information. And I'll be frank, like, that was a lot of the things. When I was looking at fulfillment companies as a brand owner, I was like, really turned off. I was like, why is there a it's like, the man behind the curtain situation here. I'm like, it doesn't need to be like this. And, you know, receiving our first invoice with that brand, we were like, what? Like, they didn't tell us this. And then we even read through the contract, and we're like, wow, this wording is super, super sketchy. And, you know, again, always read contracts before you sign them, and I'm a big believer of that. But. There's just a lot of kind of that happening in this world that we're trying to just break it down. We're trying to just really simplify it, really be transparent, yeah, and just provide that guidance. You know, there's no secret what my margins are on your you know, I'm doing this for you, like, I want you to know what that is. 

Sari  20:17  
And not be hit with a whole bunch of crazy charges at the end. Yeah, really no getting into because it's got to make sense. I mean, ultimately, it's time and money, right? It's always this equation as a founder and sometimes, you know, I do have people that are like, I'm under the minimums, but I just do not have time to do with this. And I work it into my business model, and it's like, okay, great.  

Caitlin  20:41  
Yeah, and there are, and you know what? We've recently had a few brands that have moved out and we helped them get to a place where we're like, okay, awesome. So we helped you actually, like you launched your product. We helped you kind of get going, and then you purchased your own facility and are actually manufacturing on your end for freight, doing your freight and fulfillment in house. Like, that's also a really cool business model too, right? And getting back to that 1 PL model, and sometimes it's just, it's, every single situation is different, and so it's just really, like I said, the first call I like to have with people, understanding where they are in the brand cycle and letting them know, like, yes, let's insert ourselves now, or call me in six months and do X, Y and Z, and friend me on LinkedIn and stay in touch like, you know. And I'll be rooting for you, because I want you to move in, you know. And the other thing too is like, it is, it's like, obviously, I want to grow my business to be huge, but let's still humanize this, you know, and not make it so crazy. So I like to kind of provide that community aspect, you know, with these brands and encourage them, yeah, oh my gosh. Is that what you want to do? You want to move this all in house? Okay, great. Let's get you there. Like, let me help you. Here is our contact for, you know, our box guy. Here is our, you know, insulation guy. You know, oh, you need dry ice, call these two companies. Get rates from them, by all means. And there's a lot of companies that are like, I do not ever want to have my own warehouse. I do not and, you know, they want to build it up. Go for Series A, all those things like, we can help those brands too, you know. 

Sari  22:18  
Yeah, you know your stuff in this world. So you're such a great connection. And so generous with your time. So I do want to ask because we're talking about shipping, and I know it can be so tough for brands dealing with the shipping factor, right? And like, when we're up against Amazon and Prime and all these things. And I actually just had a brand founder yesterday in our group saying, you know, I dropped all these packages off at the post office and they're lost in transit. Like, no tracking number, and it's the holidays, and, you know, and customers are like, don't like paying for shipping and, all right, but like, what is the deal with shipping? Like, why is it so expensive? It feels expensive, right? But maybe just, like, pull the curtain back a little bit. 

Caitlin  23:05  
Yeah, so, I mean, it's not cheaper for us. Like, even with volume, I mean, I may be saving like, 10-15% like, it's just, it's outrageous, and I shared those savings with our clients, right? Like, where we're making money is the cost of fulfillment, you know, the cost of my labor, and we are a labor business, but yeah, so, you know, I always advise brands to consider, especially with like shipping charges, to consider like that, and maybe working with people like you on this, but you know, what is, where can you be to then offer them free shipping, right? So to encourage the high checkout, so that's one thing. That's kind of one model that I'll like help people work through. I'm happy to like provide guidance with financial modeling and stuff like that. But I am not an expert when it comes to finance, so I always like kind of preface that with clients, but, you know, from a consulting perspective, or just guidance perspective on an hourly basis, like, I do it all the time. So that's kind of one approach, right? Like, option one is like, how can we get you to a place where your checkouts are high, you know, and what does that look like to your cost, to your true cost per unit, and then, you know, factoring in the cost of fulfillment, the cost of the box, like, the cost of your storage, right? And understanding like, okay, well, you've got five pallets here with me, but if the product doesn't move for six months, like, I want you to move your product. I want your five pallets to be in and out of here. And let's just maintain a five palette space for you, you know. And let's just keep moving on that. And then option two is kind of okay, let's look at the cost of fulfillment. Let's look at the cost of a corrugate if you know you're buying corrugate from me, if you don't own it yourself. And then let's look at your, you know, your average storage costs, your overhead. And then let's try to break that down by a like per unit based on the amount of orders that you have that on an average month. So if you're at like, 100 orders a month, let's call it 50 orders a week, or 25 orders a week. Great. Let's like model out what a 9.99 looks like. Let's 7.99, let's see what these look like. If you're a frozen product or a refrigerated product that has to get there, you know, in one to two business days. That totally different story. So let's put them in, like, option three category. But, you know, and that is, listen, as a consumer, I'm always going to expect to pay some level of shipping, knowing, generally speaking, consumers must know, there's got to be dry ice involved. There's got to be ice packs, things like that, involved, right? So I always encourage, okay, let's do like a flat rate trial, and let's see what it looks like. You know, within Colorado, it's this cost. You know, within this zone, it's this cost. And then, you know, if you want to even look at your shipping is like a profit center, or trying to become a profit center. Those are discussions that we could have, right? And kind of looking at it like, yes, they're paying for shipping, but can I make $1 on all of that, right? Can it all add up, and can I still make $1 per order? Maybe, you know, and so kind of like working through that modeling. We love to help clients with that. We also have some clients who are like, nope, this is what I do, and that, hey, that, that's totally fine, too. I just want to be a resource, if I can give you one, you know, give you any level of advice. So another, like, kind of interesting concept, if you're going, you know, from direct to consumer to like B to B or wholesale is the concept of like delivered sales, right? And not just relying on Unify to come and pick it up for you, because like, again, always read your contract. But you know, in the fine print, like they're making some good money on the freight, right? And that is going to affect your bottom line. And is your brand even ready for that? Or should you explore delivered model where you're physically dropping it off using an LTL service, and your pricing reflects that, and you add a few cents per unit, you know? So all of those kind of discussions I love having with brands. I'm a freight dork, so I don't know.

Sari  27:26  
Yeah, I have a pricing for profit, like whole spreadsheet that at least a high level to kind of start working in all those costs. But you probably get even deeper in the weeds. And yeah, I mean, I love it that you guys do the frozen and refrigeration, which can be really challenging to find a good partner in that space, I know. That's why you started, because you were refrigerated. 

Caitlin  27:48  
Yeah, we started with the hardest product, frozen. 

Sari  27:52  
Yeah, and it needs all these things. And I know you've, you worked with some of my clients who have refrigerated, refrozen stuff. And one of the words that I learned from you, well, through a client, was the word kidding, right? So what is that? Just so people hear that from. 

Caitlin  28:12  
Kidding is like a term. I mean, again, you know, I kind of encapsulate a lot of things in a kidding. But you know, anytime that you're bundling something or providing, you know, like, one SKQ is three items, or, you know, things like that, we call that kidding, right? And a lot of times we'll kid out, or we'll prep out in advance. So like, if you're one of those that has 500 orders a day, like, I'm going to kid for you the night before, right, to be ready to go. And if you hit your numbers, great, and if you don't, we've got some extra kids left over for the next day. Kidding also comes into play when you're dealing with Amazon, because from you know, an FBA perspective, Fulfilled by Amazon perspective, they always sell things by the unit, and the unit usually is classified as multiple items. And so we do a lot of kidding when it comes to Amazon. So you know, one of my clients has like, six items that must be placed into a box and then sealed a certain way, and then, you know, a label is placed on top, on the side and on the bottom. So that's called kidding. You need to know all this as a brand, right? Like, let me help you understand what it takes for your product to get into these places in a specific way. You know, we have a awesome client that's been with us for years, that, or from the beginning, really, that is just getting into some new retailers. And it's great. They send me the 97 page like document that they get from these retailers that says, like, essentially, here is how your product has to arrive to us. And these retailers make it so that if your product does not arrive that way, you'll get chargebacks, right? And it's so it's all about reading the fine print, and it's all about really going through every single step and every single part of the document. I've got a few employees, a few members of our team on the client services side that are, like, really good at details. And as far as I'm concerned, like, supporting a brand, like, really, all that you need to know is how to read through details. I mean, that is now how it is. So they just, all they want to do is kind of like, oh, they missed the sticker. Great. Let's charge them back. You know, it's any opportunity that they can get to, you know, to kind of make a profit. 

Sari  
That's the way it is. But I also understand from like, a high level, I mean, these are warehouses and distributors that are receiving thousands and thousands of products and so they need it to be a certain way. And so if details, because I know a lot of my folks are like, I make the most amazing thing, and I'm really creative. And like, when you start getting into distribution or retailers or Amazon or things like that, like, it is so specific, and you got to get it right, otherwise that shipment might be coming back, or you're getting chargebacks, or, you know, whatever it doesn't get checked in correctly. And, I mean, I remember at Whole Foods, you know, having to send product out back, you know, having to refuse product that was out of temp or didn't have the right labels and the right shipping stuff. And it's just heartbreaking. But I think finding a good partner like yourself to help walk you through that. Because, if you're not a detailed person, which I'm not always here, like, go find people who are. 

Caitlin  
Listen, a lot of founders, like I'm realizing more and more. Like, while I loved being a part of the dog food company from the, you know, from the perspective from the ops even, I wasn't, like, cut it out to own my own brand, right? Like, and I realized, I was like, oh, my God, well, and I was on a team there too, but I thought forever and ever, like, oh, this would be so fun to have my own brand. And it's like, no, I want to support brands because our team's pretty good at doing the support side. And but, yeah, it's interesting, you know, back to like, kind of, like, all the nuances, like, even down to the details of, like, kind of knowing, like, insider information, like, I know right now at Walmart, or, sorry, at Amazon. It's taking three months to check in palettes. A lot of brands don't know that. Like, I have a brand that's just now getting started on Amazon, and I'm like, oh, shoot. I'm like, it's December 5, it's like, probably the worst time to start, like, a storefront on Amazon. But okay, you want to get some product in for FBA, sounds good. I'm like, let's make sure it goes UPS parcel, because that has a better chance of getting checked in before the new year than a pallet will. And while she wants everything in her power, she wants to do pallets, I'm like, listen, it's not going to work out well for you so, and sure enough, we'll get her accepted. It's going to be fine because she's going to ship a ton of parcels in. And so it's also just kind of looking like, what is that going to cost you as a business? And making that decision like, is this channel where you should be going after you're looking at all the costs associated with it, including the freight and logistics?

Sari  
And I think it's good to think about, to remember that a lot of times we think of three PLs, and we just think of like, direct to consumer, right, filling your Shopify store, right, and doing that fulfillment. But, and I don't know if this is typical of other 3 PLs. But I do love that you guys are kind of multi disciplinary, if you will. But you know, like you said, the Amazon like, you could ship a pallet from your co packer, and then you guys build the kits, and then you put them in the boxes and ship them to Amazon and with all the correct labels and everything, or and I know, like, certain grocery stores, like Sprouts, I believe measured Sprouts will, like, accept, you know, UPS deliveries and things like that too. So, you know, you can decide, like, well, I actually don't want to go with a distributor. I just want to ship. And so you guys can, and you guys can also work help with the logistics of, like, getting it to. 

Caitlin  
Exactly, I mean even the major retailers, like, it's just, again, it's just about reading the fine print, like Target accepts UPS, so it's just kind of knowing, like the ability to really read the fine print, ask the right questions from all these buyers and and wade through the BS and just kind of figure out what's going to be best for my brand. You know, is it going to be always parcel, always LTL, like, am I going to want to get on a cadence? I've got one client that I'm helping. It's a yogurt brand, really fun yogurt brand. And you know, they were looking at their ke numbers, and they're like, God, my numbers are just, the check in rate versus right, like, all of those percentages right on all these reports that they provide you with every month that are really, really helpful, by the way, and everyone should be diving into that information. And you and I have a lot of mutual friends that could help with that service as well, right? But just looking at things from like a holistic perspective and thinking like, well, shoot, why don't we throw a tracker on a pallet? Let's throw a GPS tracker that has a temp tail and a GPS feature. And we don't need to tell KE that we're doing this. Let's just do it, because you own that product, and let's see how quickly it gets arrived at KE. And if they're not doing a good enough job, great, let's and again, I've got tons of friends at KE too, so and they're the first ones to say how busy they are, right? We're all busy. We're all growing, right? The food business is just booming right now. But let's help as a brand, instead of just constantly complaining and constantly like, God, why is this happening to me? Let's come up with a solution. Let's trial a few things. You know, let's look at like so what we're doing there is we're going to throw a temptail or a tracker on these pallets and see if it arrives when they're telling us it's arriving, right? And, you know? And if we need to tell the buyer, hey, listen, we're doing this like we're not going to be shady about it, we're going to tell you, this is what we're doing for our brand. We want to improve our numbers. So we're doing a cool approach, you know, we're trying something new. So it's just, you know, those types of kind of solutions. And coming from the produce world, right? Like those trackers, those temptails were required on every load and, you know, so that's like, the world I come from is kind of this, really coming from a stringent background, being fresh produce with the shortest shelf life of anything in the grocery store. You know, it's fun to, kind of like, think of  old tips and tricks, right, and bring them to this space.

Sari  
How can people be like they're ready? They're like, I'm ready to go and start working with a 3 PL or some time fulfillment logistics service. What do you guys look for to build a great partnership? And what can people be thinking about as they, you know, come on board and like, they want to be a good partner? Because what I'm hearing is, like, you want to be really great partners with your customers and brands, and, like, everybody succeed.

Caitlin  
Yeah. So we have a number of questions. It's so funny because a lot of these 3 PLs, and again, this is kind of something I'm trying to flip in the industry too, and not every 3 PL is like this. So this is a generalized statement to not include everyone, but generally it's like, you can go to websites and you can see all their pricing, and you can even type in, like, I've got five pellets, how much is it going to cost? Or I've got this, this and this, right? And that's great, and that'll give you, like, kind of a general overview idea of, like, what the industry pricing standard is. And quite frankly, we're priced at the industry standard, right? We can't be priced any higher, because we would not be in business. So it's just, you know, it's a competitive space but really thinking through, like, we asked the questions like, what sales channels are you currently in? Where do you see yourself going, right? So, oh, you don't have Faire yet. You want to get on to Faire. Great. Are you interested in Amazon? Oh, okay, you're already working with Luke Tierney or one of these other, right? Great, awesome. So just kind of answering all the questions about the profile of their brand, having a true understanding of their volume. Some brand founders like, think they have an idea, and then, you know, they move in, and we're like, well, shoot, you're doing a lot better than you told us you were, you know, volume wise. So really, having a good idea of where you are with volume. And again, this might sound really, really basic, but your business could change day to day, especially during Q4, you know, or Q1 to Q4, right? And having an idea of your landscape. So that's kind of the first thing that we like to go over. And then the second part is, you know, how do you like your product shipped? If you're a dry good you know, are you currently just kind of using like Shopify to check out and buy labels from Shopify? Like, are you paying attention? Are you doing mostly USPS? Are you doing UPS, Spot X? Like, do you have a preferred carrier partner? So that kind of that question mark we like to ask, right? And then, what is your volume? What is your projected volume for the year? Do you have any big goals and aspirations and dreams that we need to know about, right? Or did you get accepted as a new product in Walmart? You know, did you like what's happening? And so we ask these questions, not to be super nosy, but to like, have an understanding of kind of where you are and where you're going, so that we're ready. And it's interesting, because a lot of brands, when we ask these questions, they kind of, I'm like that, you know, they kind of ask, look at the themselves, and say, like, why are we having this conversation? And once I explain it, and kind of break down that, that barrier of, like we are more than a 3 PL, like, we want to be there for you. So if you're at five pallets, but you anticipate being at 70 pallets of storage, I need to know, you know, I want to know. And I want to help you get there, you know. And it really is about being strategic in this space and having it that understanding, you know, great, you're here, but someday you're going to have to have a carrier on a contract, like, lovely, like, let's start having those conversations now. You know, oh, you manufacture in Denver and in the southeast. Awesome. Let me do a cost analysis. Like, let's play with some numbers. Let's split your Shopify between two locations. You know, just things like that, right, where it's thinking big picture and really trying to, like, provide a value to the brands that they're not going to maybe see at other 3PLs so and again, it's, do we charge enough? Maybe not. 

Sari  
But it definitely offer a lot of added value.

Caitlin  
Yeah, we do. We do. And, you know, when you're looking at, like, our monthly minimum, it's like, the cost of a very inexpensive warehouse space in Denver, at a shared location. It's a very reasonable monthly minimum. Yeah, I mean, it's just being like we talked about earlier, transparent. And if you know that, I think would probably in one word, answer that question for you, after the long handed explanation. But just the transparency piece is and realizing from day one, like we want to be your partner. There's a lot of brands that come in here that may not share information with us, and then it's like, we get in trouble, right? Because, oh, this was your goal. Oh, okay, you didn't share that with us. Like, I'm trying to look through my notes, right? My emails and, you know. And that's not going to help anyone. So just that transparency piece. 

Sari  
That actually inspired another question. When you're finding 3 PL, is location to you or to your manufacturer? Is that important? I know, as brands grow and mature like they often want to start right right around them, and I totally get that, but it is very common for, you know, you're going to find that specialty co packer, you know, we know some folks in Denver who are working with a Wisconsin, you know, co man, right? How do you know where, what location, or does that matter? Like, what do you need to think about? 

Caitlin  
So I've helped brands that are kind of exploring, like, okay, I'm manufacturing myself, and then I'm considering going to this part of the country for manufacturing, like, can we do like, a quick cost analysis on, like, what a truckload or an LTL would be back to Denver, right? So that they could then factor that into, like, their modeling that you probably help them with, right? And so that's one piece. Another piece is, you know, we, obviously, I chose Denver because I live here, but it's helpful that we're like in the middle of the country. It really is. I've done a ton of work over the years looking at direct to consumer and LCL pricing from the coasts versus from the middle of the country, where, as a result, I mean, we get called, we're working with a few international brands now that literally just googled us and were like, Denver, free PL, or whatever they did to Google us and find us and call us, and they're huge, and it's because they want to be in the middle of our country. They, you know,they have logistics spaces in like, every continent that a few these two brands that I'm thinking of in particular, and they chose Denver because they have people on their team doing cost analysis and doing pricing, you know. So what I tell small brands, though, is to kind of, like, think big picture and don't just choose Denver to choose Denver. If your primary, like, you know, if you're on Shopify and you're running reports, you know, if Shopify is our platform that you use for direct to consumer, if your primary user is, like, within like, three states around Denver, like, keep it in Denver. I mean, your freight is going to be, you know, your shipping costs are going to be cheap. You know, you and I have both worked with a number of brands who have been founded here. They have a cult like following here, you know. Let great, keep it here for now, you know. And then let's explore. And then, you know, we also work with a lot of brands who aren't based here, but they manufacture here and so, and they've done work where they're like, well, shoot, it's only $250 to get two truckloads in your warehouse, whereas to ship it all the way back to the southeast, to me, it would be five grand, you know, to do that, and so that right there. Adding that dollar figure to each unit, it makes sense for them, if they're a high volume, if they're moving through stuff, it makes sense for them to just keep their product where it's manufactured, or really close by. I think it's a hard question to answer, because it really is, like every again, I've said this like three times, but every single brand is so unique and has a different storyline. And you know, the answers are not the same for every single brand, and that, I think that's what's so interesting about this business. And like, what I love the most about it.

Sari  
That's why we love doing what we do, because, never the same, and what are your goals? And, yeah, where are you going with this and big picture and but yeah, it is all of that modeling pieces. And so if you need support with that, you know, I help people with that, you help people with that. It's like, find the answers. Don't just make assumptions about it, and don't be scared to get out of your area, because you might be surprised that there's other options. Amazing. Well, anything else you want to make sure, did I touch on all the main things when you talk about?

Caitlin  
Yeah, I did talk about logistics for hours, so it cannot be too boring to the listeners. I think, you know, listen, you know, I think just not being scared, and you know, we're here to help. And I taught, like I said, I talk to brands all the time that I don't end up working with. But if I could provide some level of value, right, like, hey, go check out this company for custom boxes. Or, hey, go, you know, call this guy for local freight. Or, you know, things like that. I love to help. So if I could provide any level of value to our community here, into your, you know, your followers, which I'm one of, you know, I just, I love what you've done here, Sari, and I think it's lovely to have this community and to break down the walls. Let's not be scared. Let's do this together.

Sari  
Absolutely. Yes, I know I love it. We're two women shaking this industry up a little bit. All right. Well, thank you so much. Hope you have a great rest of your day. One of the things I love about the work that I get to do is that I get to make such amazing relationships and connections with awesome people throughout this industry, and Caitlin Wilson is another example of the people who are helping brands to succeed, like yourself, and that we all really want everybody to win, no matter your size and no matter what your path, your goals are, so thank you so much to Caitlin. That was an incredible conversation. Do reach out. I will put all of her links below so you can find her and find Full Good fulfillment and connect with them when you are ready, because finding a great fulfillment partner is so key as you scale your business. Until next time, have an amazing week. 

Sari  
The smartest thing you can do as an entrepreneur is to invest in a who to help you with the how to speed up your journey and help you skip the line. When you are ready for more support and accountability to finally get this thing done, you can work with me in two ways. Get me all to yourself with one on one business coaching, or join Food Business Success, which includes membership inside Fuel, our community of food business founders, that includes monthly live group coaching calls and so much more. It's one of my favorite places to hang out, and I would love to see you there. Go to foodbizsuccess.com to start your journey towards your own food business success.